Resources for Buying and Selling Online Businesses

Multi-Market Dashboard for Advanced Sellers

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Paul Sonneveld

Paul Sonneveld is the Co-founder and CEO of MerchantSpring, a next-generation sales and analytics software platform for professional sellers and agencies. MerchantSpring provides a single view across multiple marketplaces, including Amazon, eBay, and numerous others worldwide.

Some of Paul’s past positions include Executive General Manager at Catch.com.au, Head of First Choice Liquor at Coles Group, and Project Leader at The Boston Consulting Group.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Paul Sonneveld talks about co-creating MerchantSpring and discusses the platform’s typical clients
  • Which e-commerce platform is growing the fastest — besides Amazon?
  • How Amazon compares to other marketplaces across the globe
  • MerchantSpring’s process for helping sellers track products and sales across different platforms and currencies
  • Paul shares MerchantSpring’s user-friendly resources and features
  • Where to learn more about MerchantSpring and access its no-strings-attached free trial

In this episode…

Are you a professional Amazon seller? Do you want to know the secrets to selling in multiple marketplaces across the globe — with little to no hassle?

As many e-commerce entrepreneurs know, selling products in multiple marketplaces can be messy — especially if those marketplaces are in different countries. When various regulations, languages, and currencies come into the picture, sellers are often too intimidated to pursue a multi-market business model, even when it can bring them unparalleled success. That’s why Paul Sonneveld created MerchantSpring: to provide a stress-free platform that makes growing, scaling, and selling your business globally a piece of cake.

In this episode of the Quiet Light Podcast, Joe Valley sits down with Paul Sonneveld, the Co-founder and CEO of MerchantSpring, to discuss the secrets to scaling your business globally using a multi-market dashboard. Listen in as Paul talks about MerchantSpring’s ideal client profile, the top e-commerce platforms in the world (including Amazon, of course), and the ins and outs of MerchantSpring’s user-friendly software. Stay tuned!

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Quiet Light, a brokerage firm that wants to help you successfully sell your online business.

There is no wrong reason for selling your business. However, there is a right time and a right way. The team of leading entrepreneurs at Quiet Light wants to help you discover the right time and strategy for selling your business. By providing trustworthy advice, effective strategies, and honest valuations, your Quiet Light advisor isn’t your every-day broker—they’re your partner and friend through every phase of the exit planning process.

If you’re new to the prospect of buying and selling, Quiet Light is here to support you. Their plethora of top-notch resources will provide everything you need to know about when and how to buy or sell an online business. Quiet Light offers high-quality videos, articles, podcasts, and guides to help you make the best decision for your online business.

Not sure what your business is really worth? No worries. Quiet Light offers a free valuation and marketplace-ready assessment on their website. That’s right—this quick, easy, and free valuation has no strings attached. Knowing the true value of your business has never been easier!

What are you waiting for? Quiet Light is offering the best experience, strategies, and advice to make your exit successful. To learn more, go to quietlight.com, email [email protected], or call 800.746.5034 today.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:07

Hi, folks, it’s the Quiet Light Podcast where we share relentlessly honest insights, actionable tips, and entrepreneurial stories that will help founders identify and reach their goals.

Joe Valley  0:29

Hey folks, Joe Valley here, welcome to another episode of the Quiet Light Podcast. Today’s episode is brought to you by The EXITpreneur’s Playbook. By the time this launches, we have launched the book. The book is designed to help all online entrepreneurs understand the real value of their business. It has been referred to as the ultimate guide for selling online business of course, that was by our very own Walker Deibel. So take that with a grain of salt but Gino Wickman, who is the author of Traction and founder of EOS says it is a must-read for all online entrepreneurs. It’s here to help just like everybody Quiet Light, that’s the key thing. The book is to help you understand how to get maximum value for your business, whether you’re selling through an advisory from like Quiet Light, or selling on your own to one of the hundreds of FBA roll up aggregators that are hitting your inbox every day. It will help you with any of those possibilities. Alright, enough about that today’s guest is Paul Sonneveld. From MerchantSpring, Paul is it’s pretty cool. It’s got a fantastic accent. We love our Australian folks. And actually that’s where he is you’re not you’re not Australian, though you’re Paul.

Paul Sonneveld  1:41

No, I’m, I’m Dutch. And I really struggled to get rid of the accent. I can, I can dial it up for your listeners, if that’s of interest, but I suspect it’s not

Joe Valley  1:52

throw it in now. And then I’m from Maine, Maine originally, and my folks are from Massachusetts, and I can throw in that Boston accent whenever I want to. On my main accent, I can work it all in. So feel free to do what you need to do. It’s okay,

Paul Sonneveld  2:05

make it more interesting. It’s good, at least you can control your accent. And I find that over time, I tend to mimic other people’s accents. And I can’t stop it. It’s embarrassing. It’s very embarrassing to me, Ireland or Scotland? It’s Yeah, it’s completely preposterous.

Joe Valley  2:21

Don’t do that. Don’t do that. If I tried to mimic others accent, I will just make a fool of myself because I do it so poorly. Alright, tell it tell us about MerchantSpring. I know that, you know, we’ve got an audience that I think really needs the services. And I know we’re not. We don’t obviously just pitch services here. But I want to talk about all the things that folks should be focusing on and some of the things that you do at merchants, right. So give us a little background there.

Paul Sonneveld  2:46

Yeah, sure. So. So MerchantSpring is a relatively new business. We started about four years ago really as a full service agency, Amazon agency and other marketplace agency here in Australia. But about two years ago, we did it to turn ourselves into a product and SaaS business. Because we really found that if you are a professional seller or a marketplace agency and you having the joy, you’re selling your products through multiple marketplaces, through multiple countries, perhaps and multiple accounts, how do you actually keep track of all of that? And how do you manage that efficiently? So we couldn’t find a tool to help you do that properly. And don’t get me wrong. There’s lots of great tools out there. But a lot of very sort of what I call single marketplace, single seller focus. If you’re facing a portfolio of marketplaces that might be five or that might be 50 or 100. In the case of some of our clients, how do you manage all that? So we What have I think is just one of the first says marketplace focused analytics and reporting platforms, allowing you to connect all of your marketplaces irrespective you’re talking Amazon, Walmart, you know, eBay Best Buy, connect them all together into a single view so that you can understand not just what’s happening across your business, but also quickly understand, you know, where do I need to focus my energies today to drive more sales and drive more profit and all that. So that’s the pain we’re trying to solve. And been doing that for about just under just under two years now, Joe?

Joe Valley  4:20

And so your typical client is not a strictly an Amazon FBA client. They are more of an advanced seller that has a larger business where they’re trying to grow it and sell across multiple platforms in multiple countries, I would assume as well, right?

Paul Sonneveld  4:33

Yeah, there’s a few combinations we typically I talk about professional sellers and sort of agencies and investors. My definition of professional sellers is really sort of physical ecommerce first businesses, businesses that have been around for a few years probably started on Amazon. And I’ve got a great business saying Amazon but are now extending out so I typical professional seller profile in North America will look like someone who is in As an Amazon store, also running Walmart, probably your Shopify store. And maybe even eBay store, obviously, that’s not as popular in the US these days. In Europe, that might be Hey, I’m an Amazon seller on Germany, but I’m also now in France, Netherlands, Italy, Spain. And I’m also connected to one or two local marketplaces like Cdiscount, or Bulldog.com, you know, and a similar story here in Australia. So that’s, that’s our view of like, really that professional investor, you know, certainly not the people who are sort of, you know, starting out as a seller on Amazon or doing that sort of, you know, they’ve been doing it for a couple of years. And now when I sort of expand the sales going forward,

Joe Valley  5:40

so for someone that’s exposed to as many platforms in as many countries as you are, can you tell us what, where you’re seeing the most growth aside from Amazon? Because look, we all know Amazon’s growing like crazy. Well, you know, a lot of folks that, that maybe launch first on Amazon launch or launch their own, you know, website, where do they go next? What would be the next lowest hanging fruit platform wise? In your opinion?

Paul Sonneveld  6:10

Yeah, look, that’s a great question. And I could literally talk for for six hours, all day, but let me try and give you the really the brief synopsis, right? Because the answer really varies by country. So so let me not try to cover the whole globe. But I’ll pick a few different markets. So let’s say, let’s, let’s take a starting point that you are a seller on Amazon, us, you’ve done pretty well. And that’s running well for you. And actually, I posted the other day, and I said, Guys, where should we go next? And you know, about half the audience said, No, you just need to work Amazon harder, fast if we put more effort into it. So that’s always an option as well, right? There’s always more leaves to trade your existing. So even if once you think you’ve run out of options, there is always another another option. But so hypothetically speaking, let’s say what do you do next, outside of that, in terms of first questions, really ask is how do you reach an incremental audience and an audience that that shops, you know, perhaps elsewhere, and certainly in the US, you know, you’ve got this sort of quite well known, Walmart is really taken off really the last year, sort of two years ago, they’re pretty flat, it’s really taken off now. And they’re nowhere near the size of Amazon. But what a lot of people forget. And this sort of comes to the sort of more curated type marketplace aspect. There’s a lot of marketplaces out there that are way smaller in terms of traffic, but then you look at the seller competition, it’s even less. So if you think about I call this like a fish food equation, right? You think about how much fish food is that to go around in terms of traffic or buyers, per seller, on average, you find that some of these smaller marketplaces are really stepping in your favor. So certainly, you know, Walmart is a great option, although they have just opened their their platform to international seller. So I think that that competition is going to increase a lot.

Joe Valley  7:59

Have they done? Have they gotten better with the platform itself in terms of bulk, uploading excusing products and descriptions and things of this nature? Or is it you know, still in the dark, it felt like it was in the dark ages three years ago?

Paul Sonneveld  8:12

Yeah. And I looked at their API’s are a lot better. And they’re adding more and more and more functionality. And even if you were lucky enough to become a certified Walmart provider a few months ago, it’s not an easy process. It does look like they have really upgraded that that capability. But having said that, they are significantly behind the likes of Amazon in terms of bells and whistles, and what you can get out of their platform, but you know, even things like buy box information now available, you know, advertising available is available to select the partner. So there’s certainly moving forward, but they’ve got catching up to do.

Joe Valley  8:47

Okay, so, you know, if somebody is doing, you know, let’s just say they’re doing 5 million a year on Amazon, or a million a year, whatever the number is us only, and they decide their products really fit well with the Walmart customers. What? And I know this is impossible, but I know you got a crystal ball, they’re just off camera. What kind of bump? Are they looking? would you expect somebody if they did it right? And did it well? Are they going to gain another 5% in revenue or 50% in revenue when they go to Walmart for the US?

Paul Sonneveld  9:19

Yeah, look, of course, this answer is going to be caveated with everything you can find out. But moving those caveats away. You know, if you were to ask me, I think 50% of what they do in Walmart would be the top end of what they can watch. Are you on Amazon? Okay. Yeah. And look, there’s always exceptions, right. But I think a good target would be between 1020 and 30%.

Joe Valley  9:44

And that’s, that’s today. So if you again, call it 15% that’s today if you do it right, but Walmart is going to continue to grow and expand and more people are going to shop there. I did it recently myself and I’ve been a product I remember for as long as Prime has been around, and I prefer to buy on Amazon but couldn’t find something. I looked at Walmart, I found it, they shipped it to me, it was pretty easy. So I could see it growing over the next few years. And people getting into it sort of on the ground floor now as opposed to just focusing solely on Amazon. Okay.

Paul Sonneveld  10:18

Yeah, that’s right. So, um, the interesting thing about this expansion is obviously, so you get 20% 30% incremental sales, and then you got to think about what’s the complexity of ads, right? And is that the game we’re in? But you know, that’s really so from Well, just to build on? My other answer is obviously expanding to other, you know, Amazon, Canada, Amazon, in Mexico, you know, that you’re not going to get massive bumps, but the incremental effort is pretty low, right? Because your next option then is to go to Amazon in Europe, and then becomes a little bit complex, right? You took my shipping products into Amazon FBA, or you need to, you know, VAT registration to set up there, which has become very likely now. So, you know, you know, with different moves become different incremental complexity, you’re always going to weigh that up in terms of, you know, how do you manage that? It’s a good

Joe Valley  11:04

point. It’s a good point, because, you know, in Amazon, Canada, you might get a 10% bump, right? Because if you just go by population size, but what’s the number down in Mexico?

Paul Sonneveld  11:13

ballpark? be less, I would say five, right? So I think Mexico and hope Amazon’s not listening to this podcast, but listen, anyways. Yeah, Jeff, and I was a little bit first. Yes, sorry. Go ahead. He’s, yeah, he’s, Mexico is a little bit sort of at the margin, what it really depends on your products, because then you’re also talking about, like, you know, the language translation, the complexity of glass, you know, what you really have to do the equations say, right, is it worth the incremental effort to actually do that? Because at that point, you might find it? Well, actually, at the margin, maybe the UK, Amazon UK is a better option, right? Or if you’re in the electronics game, you know, maybe Best Buy in North America becomes a better option, right? Or the other one that’s generating a lot of excitement, but no one seems to get on at the moment, its Target plus the sellers that have managed to get online. And look, they only have a couple of 100 sellers, right now seems to be a very exclusive club. But again, reporting really good performance, you know, and that’s again, you know, think of the size of the brand of Target. It’s, it’s a big brand, you know, nowhere near asleep, you know, Walmart or Amazon, but it’s a big brand, you know, having only 200 or 300 marketplace sales. It’s a bit like, yeah, gosh, yeah, that’s it. That’s it. Wow.

Joe Valley  12:31

Okay. So internationally, it does get more complex, right, with with, you know, shipping over to EU and setting up VAT and whatnot. But there’s a benefit there is it? You know, again, going back a few years ago, that was more? Look, we have the wild wild west here in the states that was even more wild, wild west, is it’s becoming more commonplace for the residents over there to go to amazon.com to buy, or is there another platform that they adopted early on? And I know it’s not Dakota, folks. I know it’s not

Paul Sonneveld  13:06

Yeah. No, no, no. Look, you’re is really a little bit a country by country proposition. What I would say is Amazon has established a really strong position relative to the other marketplaces in most countries. So if I just, you know, certainly in Germany, it is the number one, you know, followed by basically say that

Joe Valley  13:30

the, the people that I see that launch over there seem to do very well in Germany. Okay, continue.

Paul Sonneveld  13:35

And it’s a great it’s really been, it’s probably the number one in Germany, it is the number one in Italy, Spain, in France is a lot of local competition. So you’ve got ethnic is both is the largest independent little bit on, it’s one of the largest domestic retailers, but like the Walmart of France, so to speak, you have Cdiscount, Dotty there all other local marketplaces that are up there. But you know, Amazon is probably I would say, a solid second, depending on how you look at it. Then you’ve got some of the more emerging markets, but Amazon has just entered. So in Poland, obviously, it’s completely new. So you know, you manage expectations, but they’ve got a very large domestic player, all Allegro. Same for the Netherlands, right, hold on just realistic nectar. You know, they’ve been around for 1515 plus years, I’m guessing, you know, they have a cemetery of very entrenched position. And then you’ve got the UK where it’s really an Amazon and eBay game. And Amazon is is definitely very far ahead of of eBay. So a couple of really big markets, but Amazon is number one, and the what is the great thing about Amazon is its platform, it’s pretty homogenous across across the world. So if you know how to trade how to do business on Amazon, how to get your products into an Amazon fulfillment center. You know, doing this for Europe is Going to feel by easy, probably easier than you think in terms of, you know, the complexities of cross border. And

Joe Valley  15:07

so let’s just say we’re on a bunch of these different marketplaces in different countries. How do I track it all? That’s where MerchantSpring comes into place, right?

Paul Sonneveld  15:17

Yeah, look, obviously, the challenge is all of these countries have different backends different reports, even just, you know, trying to understand things using the common terminology is really, really challenging. So the way we solve that is by allowing you in a very light touch process to link all of your accounts to our platform. So let’s say for example, you’re your seller in Europe, or, you know, just entered Europe, selling in North America, you connect your Amazon us store, your Walmart store, then your Amazon, Germany, store brands, you know, maybe a local connector, like Cdiscount connects them all into the platform, our platform for reporting purposes, we’ll put everything back to your default currency. So that might be your US dollar. So you can see your total ecommerce business in a snapshot. So you can say, hey, right now, how’s my business trending. But then the other thing that we’re doing to really manage that complexities, bring all of the sales insights, operational insights, like seller health, for example, you know, making that visible across the different marketplaces, you know, profitability and the like bringing it all at your fingertips in a very sort of easy, digestible interface. So that you can understand pretty much in real time and aware of my issues, right, so Okay, I’ve got a, I’ve got an issue in Cdiscount, because my cell health ratings just gone to add risk, because I’m shipping products too late. So we quickly shine a spotlight on that, you don’t have to log on to the back end, but understand French trying to work out what’s going on. And then take some action, you know, we just sort of thought we just literally on that particular piece, we’ll just give you 40 minutes of your time back that day, because we serve that information at your fingertips. So it’s a big time saving tool and really helps you to reorient your energies on you know, what do I need to focus, you know, everyone’s to drive more sales and their bottom line? So how do I do that efficiently? And where do I need to start? First?

Joe Valley  17:08

It sounds complex, to be honest with you. But that’s from me, who’s not very technical, right? Um, I have certain skills. And fortunately, Mark Daoust, my partner has has, you know, skills that offset my weaknesses, and mine offset is, and then we’ve got other people as well to help. Is it is it is talking about the learning curve here. What do you have, you know, videos and training? Or is it something where it’s just very intuitive? Because it sounds a little complex from my point of view. But you know, a little

Paul Sonneveld  17:40

Yeah, tech ignorant. Yeah, sure, sure. collection. Of course, we’ve got some great resources. And we’re, you know, we’ve got a great team, who will, you know, help you onboard. But the beauty of it is actually most of our clients connect their stores in under a minute, without any help. So, I’ve probably made it sound a lot more complex than this, the good things, the latest Amazon API’s, which is built and it’s the same for the other marketplaces is they use this concept of a water flow. Really, what that means is, you click a button, you say, I want to connect my Amazon store. So you’re want to connect my Amazon store, you simply get directly to an Amazon login screen that you’re already familiar with, but you’re logging on all the time. Okay, you log into that screen, as soon as you’re logged in, Amazon will say, Hey, would you like to link up MerchantSpring to your Amazon account? You say yes. Then we do a little clever trick in the background, we say this account. So if you sell them in German, we just do a quick check. But you’re also selling in France, Italy, Spain. And we then say, Hey, we found these other accounts that you’re selling, do you want to get this practice all in one hit? It’s literally it’s literally a tick box exercise is they click Connect. Once you do that, you’re up and running. So that’s that’s really

Joe Valley  18:54

all there is to it. And is it going to historical data? Or is it data from that day forward?

Paul Sonneveld  18:59

No, it pulls in, if we pull in at the start 90 days of historical data, depends a little bit on the platform that something you know, some data platforms are a bit more restricted around that. But for Amazon, we pull in, let’s say 60, I meant to say 90, you said 90 data, 90 data for for most of the data and the advertising data is only 60 that’s restricted by Amazon. And then when you convert to a PayPal, and we pull in all the history as well for the last year, too. So you cannot just do prior period year new comparisons as well, in terms of performance.

Joe Valley  19:33

Are you seeing clients talk about the you know, the results they’re getting in terms of clarity on their businesses and how it’s impacting their growth? Or maybe in some cases that might kill a marketplace? Because they’re learning? It’s just simply not profitable?

Paul Sonneveld  19:48

Yeah, look, it’s the big feedback that we get from professional sellers is I mean, I remember talking to a seller in in New York a couple of weeks ago. He’s like, this is fantastic. Normally, it takes My analyst, so he sort of has a part time business analyst that it takes until Thursday afternoon, to give me a report exactly tell me how we power performance was across all of our channels. For last week, he said, like, by the time I get it, like the world has moved on, whereas now he comes through his office on Monday, he just opens up the tool, the data is there, right? Right there in real time, the ability to see everything he wants. And

Joe Valley  20:26

there you go, folks, he’s all fire your business analyst and save a whole bunch of money and reinvested in something else, buy more inventory.

Paul Sonneveld  20:34

It’s that well, you know, and funny, you say that, in terms of, you know, one of the biggest insights, one of the big insights that we have right on the front page is, what is your inventory position across all of your channels right now? Right? Because typically, sellers are going to show me the latest, you know, how do I drive external traffic to my site? How do I do you know, the next level listing optimization? How do I get my organic ranking? Even better? How do I drive reviews? All of that is important. But let’s not forget, if you don’t have the inventory, you can’t sell right. You know, I think someone said the other day, like not having inventory on Amazon is like the the unforgivable sin. So

Joe Valley  21:10

it happens all the time, you know, almost Yeah, 90% of businesses that we work with, at one point or another in the prior 12 months, ran out of some inventory, especially in the last 12 months with COVID. It’s just, you know, the supply chains are challenging to say the least, or you’ve got such rapid growth that you you don’t have the tools to plan in advance for keeping up with that inventory. Does Mark Yeah, with that, by the way, in terms of we do have some growth projections. Inventory. Yeah, we do.

Paul Sonneveld  21:41

Yeah. Well, we have a, we have some inventory reporting right now showing you what are the products that are at risk of running out? And what is your missed sales, if they do later this year, in July, we’ll be bringing a more comprehensive inventory module as well really starting to give you alerts, you know, giving you days cover and allowing you to, to act on your replenishment needs. So yeah, we’re pretty excited about that.

Joe Valley  22:07

Paul, several times. Now, you’ve talked about professional sellers, you’ve used that word, professional sellers, or term. And I see it on your website as well. What’s your definition of a professional seller and who should and who shouldn’t be using MerchantSpring services are SaaS business.

Paul Sonneveld  22:26

So for us, professional seller is a seller that is across multiple marketplaces. And typically marketplaces is their main business. Right? So who would that exclude that you may have just done, say the Jungle Scout or Helium 10? Freedom ticket, right? You’re You’re an aspiring Amazon seller you about to start out at that point, probably actually doesn’t add enough value, we don’t solve enough problems for you. For that point in your cycle. Probably in two, three years time. Once you’ve got Amazon, it’s time for you just donate to Walmart. There’ll be a great time to start using. So it’s it’s really sort of that that next stage of maturity for for professional sells.

Joe Valley  23:15

We’ve been around for four years seven those guys approached you to buy MerchantSpring yet

Paul Sonneveld  23:21

the which guys are your firm’s Helium 10 and Jungle Scout? Not yet. Not yet. Not yet, but I did. I did see interestingly, see, they are getting into this game, right. So Jungle Scout recently raised a lot of money, I think 110 mil, really to build our advertising capabilities. But what’s also really interesting is they are starting to focus cross platform, right? They’re talking about how do I build tools for Walmart? How do I build to be able to store all the things so there is a natural shift that’s happening now there’s a whole pool of sellers that are really maturing, that built great business on Amazon, and they’re now going like any business owner goes, right, where’s my next source of growth? You know, how do I expand? How do I drive that? And then what are the tools to support me in that journey?

Joe Valley  24:06

Yeah. And it sounds like you are four years ahead of the other big well known names in the FBA space. So good for you. I think it’s good for the sellers. And I think your clear definition of professional seller selling on multiple platforms, or marketplaces is is spot on. So when you get to the next level beyond just selling on amazon.com, folks, MerchantSpring sounds like a really good fit for you. Well, how did the folks find out about merchant spraying get in contact with you those types of things?

Paul Sonneveld  24:37

Yeah, sure. Hey, head to our website, merchantspring.io. You’ll find everything there. We’ve just launched our shiny blue version of the site. So at bat we tells you everything you need to know about the tool, we offer a free trial, no credit card prior so you can really kick the tires on it. really encourage you to do If you know if you are selling across multiple marketplaces, and for those of you listening to this, feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn, send me a private message. If there’s anything particular you’d like to know, I’d love to come back to you as well.

Joe Valley  25:12

I will make sure the LinkedIn link is inside the show notes, folks. Paul Sonneveld, thanks so much for your time, man. I really appreciate it. Good to have you on the podcast.

Paul Sonneveld  25:22

Thank you, Joe. Great to be on show.

Joe Valley  25:26

Alright, folks, thanks for joining us for another episode of the Quiet Light Podcast. I greatly appreciate it. Please hit that subscribe button and give us a review. If you like what we say and the guests that we have. Let us know it will help grow our audience and help others understand what we do from your point of view. So thanks again for listening to the Quiet Light Podcast. We’ll see you next week.

Outro  25:48

Today’s podcast was produced by Rise25 and the Quiet Light content team. If you have a suggestion for a future podcast subject or guest, email us at [email protected] Be sure to follow us on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.

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