Resources for Buying and Selling Online Businesses

Deal Debrief: An 8-Figure Ecommerce Exit


Deanna BerardiDeanna Berardi is the Head of Partnerships at Quiet Light. In this role, she helps develop relationships with buyers, sellers, and partners to ensure the best experience for clients. She is also the Manager of Customer Success at Intuit.

Deanna has over 20 years of experience in strategic business development and was the Marketing Manager for Smart Wires Inc. and the Marketing Program Manager for Ernst & Young LLP. She graduated from Indiana University Bloomington with a bachelor’s in business administration and marketing.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • [04:02] Deanna Berardi explains the background of a camping accessory business with over $3 million in gross annual revenue
  • [08:26] How the pandemic spiked growth and the valuation process
  • [13:43] Dealing with a swift change in closing terms
  • [18:30] Deanna talks about launching the sale of a brand after a letdown
  • [20:32] Deanna breaks down the details of the deal
  • [24:30] Why due diligence and impeccable books make for a smooth sale

In this episode…

How much of an impact do clean books and due diligence make when it comes to exiting your business? For one company, model books and valuation meant securing the deal they wanted.

Achieving the exit you desire doesn’t just happen by luck — you have to put in the work. One step to gaining the biggest return on your brand is to use educational material that will enlighten you and your buyers. On the aggregator side, having a strong presentation at the beginning of the process can carry your deal to the end.

In this episode of the Quiet Light Podcast, Joe Valley and Deanna Berardi, Head of Partnerships at Quiet Light, talk about a serendipitous turn of events that generated an 8-figure exit. Deanna talks about the valuation process, documentation and transferability, and education for exit empowerment. Stay tuned!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode

This episode brought to you by Quiet Light, a brokerage firm that wants to help you successfully sell your online business.

There is no wrong reason for selling your business. However, there is a right time and a right way. The team of leading entrepreneurs at Quiet Light wants to help you discover the right time and strategy for selling your business. They provide trustworthy advice, effective strategies, and honest valuations. So, your Quiet Light advisors aren’t your everyday brokers — they’re your partner and friend through every phase of the exit planning process.

If you’re new to the prospect of buying and selling, Quiet Light is here to support you. Their plethora of top-notch resources will provide everything you need to know about when and how to buy or sell an online business. Quiet Light offers high-quality videos, articles, podcasts, and guides to help you make the best decision for your online business.

Not sure what your business is really worth? No worries. Quiet Light offers a free valuation and marketplace-ready assessment on its website. That’s right—this quick, easy, and free valuation has no strings attached. Knowing the true value of your business has never been easier!

What are you waiting for? Quiet Light offers the best experience, strategies, and advice to make your exit successful. To learn more, go to, email [email protected], or call 800.746.5034 today.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:07

Hi folks, it’s the Quiet Light Podcast where we share relentlessly honest insights, actionable tips, and entrepreneurial stories that will help founders identify and reach their goals.

Joe Valley  0:32

Hey, folks, welcome back to another episode of the Quiet Light Podcast. My name is Joe Valley, I am your host. And our guest today is Deanna Berardi on the team here at Quiet Light, doing a deal debrief on an eight figure deal. That was a heck of a business when you put it that way. What we talked about in this particular podcast is the fact that number one, the person that referred the business over to us as a podcast listener, so thank you very much. This particular individual did earn a referral fee. The seller was not in our system, we had not had conversations with them before. They eventually became a podcast listener as well. And then was referred over by the individual that is a listener. And the referral fee on this one was substantial, because it was an eight figure deal. I would imagine that the total amount would pay for almost four years of estate school, at least here in North Carolina, I’m not sure what the other states cost. The business itself again, eight figures, very, very defensible business, very attractive business. And the short story is that the seller, the adviser recently sold a business that was similar to it and went out to that buyer first, because that’s what seemed like the best approach. And the seller was all up for it, instead of going through the whole process with lots of different potential buyers. They wanted to go to one and see what their feedback would be turned out to be very interesting feedback. That was very different from the rest of the list. That sort of tells you the end result is that that particular buyer didn’t work out and we ended up going to the rest of the list. Deanna breaks it down in great detail, lots of lessons here. Let’s jump to it. It’s a deal brief with Deanna, who by the way does run the referral program, you can reach out to her at any time as well. There we go. Deanna Berardi, welcome back to the Quiet Light Podcast.

Deanna Berardi  2:22

Hey, Joe, how you doing?

Joe Valley  2:23

I’m doing good. I’m excited to hear another deal debrief from you. And this one is a big one to eight figure listing. So let’s jump right into it. Tell me about this one.

Deanna Berardi  2:35

So this was such a cool story. First of all, I like how the seller found quite late. And the reason that happened is because the seller has a family member and her husband, and they were avid podcast listeners to Quiet Light. So on a regular basis, or listen to this podcast listening to you, Joe. And this listener, you know, went to her dad and said, You, you should look about you should look to that you should look at them and talk to them. And you’re 58 You know, I know you eventually you want to retire in two years, start listening tune in to this podcast. And maybe you should even talk to them now. Because all they talk about is how to exit and how to plan for your exit and be ready before you think you need to be ready. So so it was a referral that arrived on our desk. And that’s how they found us, which is pretty cool for the listener.

Joe Valley  3:38

That’s good. I’m glad I’m glad I’m not making people want to work with our competitors by talking the way I talk on the podcast. So I’m I’m helping. I’m not hurting. That’s good. Good to know. Good to know.

Deanna Berardi  3:49

Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Joe Valley  3:50

So can you tell us a little bit about the business itself?

Deanna Berardi  3:53

Yeah. So so then what ended up happening is, so the business arrived on the desk of one of our advisors. And it is a business that’s in the camping niche. And they had found in themselves in 2006. It was by a Canadian, so it was a Canadian seller. And they were using WooCommerce they had no presence at all on Amazon. And they had these camping accessory type products. And they were very sizeable. I mean, they had like three over 3 million in gross revenue in that gross revenue, two and a half million in gross profit, so they had an insanely good margin. There SDE margin was 68% and they had amazing growth this TTM physical product. This is a physical product. Yes.

Joe Valley  4:43

Yeah. 3 million in revenue. Is that what you said in your

Deanna Berardi  4:47

million? 3 million in gross revenue annual that’s an inch and a half million in gross profit. I know it’s stunning and this is a 68% ste margin and this comes this becomes important later on the story about He’s fantastic numbers and the weight they carried.

Joe Valley  5:02

So typically, typically, folks, they are the SDE, as a percentage of revenue for a physical products business is generally in the 10 to 20% range. And when you get down less than 5%, you as buyers go, Wait a minute, this, the margins are a little tight here, I can’t pay the kind of multiple that you want. So as business owners, if you’re out there running a physical products, e-commerce business 10 to 20% is typically what we see, in this case, 68%, just phenomenal. It’s amazing.

Deanna Berardi  5:30

It is, it’s phenomenal. And not only that were the numbers strong and amazing, but it was a very defensible product. And their defensibility was very, very strong, they had seven utility patents. And all these patents were around this mold that was used to make these little devices that were super relevant to campers that made their camping experience more secure, you know, protect their products that they were using camping. So it was a very specific little utility patent that was created, there were seven of them. They also had two trademarks. So they were in a hot niche with camping that was that had a great run up in the pandemic. They also were highly profitable, they were large, they had great defensibility. And they also were very sticky. They had like 42,000 subscribers that were subscribed to their to their base, they were buying these products over and over again. And

Joe Valley  6:25

so the product was disposable in some sort or wore out. So they had to get a new one on a regular basis where they just add, they just kept buying different variations.

Deanna Berardi  6:35

You could buy different variations of it, you would you would use it on different parts of your equipment, you would might replace that equipment frequently. And you would use you would reduce these again, for that new piece of equipment, you would actually fell in love with the equipment decide to use it and other types of equipment, like maybe just not your camping equipment, but your RV or your boat, or something like that. In addition to this to that this product, Joe, it also had really good search. So it was had a good name, again, you know, these debriefs, we don’t we keep all of his privacy for the client. But they had a really good name. And they also did very well in organic search, like almost 68% of their traffic was organic search.

Joe Valley  7:16

Okay, so they weren’t spending a whole lot of money on advertising then. And this is not an Amazon FBA business. Most of the revenue is coming from straight up e-commerce off Amazon. It’s all right.

Deanna Berardi  7:26

100% of it. In fact, they had no presence at all on Amazon, which is what made them so desirable to submit the key buyers that ended up looking at him. Because they wanted to grow into that channel. Yeah,

Joe Valley  7:38

yeah. So how old was the business? When our advisor took a look at it? And was gonna list the business for sale? Any idea on that? Because that goes into that value as well.

Deanna Berardi  7:48

Yeah, so the business sold in 2022. And it started in 20. In 2006, so it’s well

Joe Valley  7:56

aged. And you said, and you said the person that referred him over said to the owner, you’re 58 years old, you’re old, you’re going to have to retire some at some point, which just crushes me because I just turned 57. So thanks a lot, whoever you are referring partner, if you’re listening now 58. He’s not old. All right. So it’s it’s a well, age business. Gosh, the patents? I mean, everything sounds great, very, very defensible. One thing I want to ask about is the growth, you said that it really took off even further in the pandemic. Well, what happened in 2021? And 2022? With the trends still climbing up? Where do they come down? Do you have any idea?

Deanna Berardi  8:38

Yeah, the trends were still very good. The trends were still doing very, very good. They had they had a nice little speed, you know, spike in 2020. But they still kind of they kind of held it out, they kind of held at that level and 2020 ones, their trends were very good. Still,

Joe Valley  8:53

what a lot of people are starting to look at, including us at quiet light is you know, whatever, whatever our trends bend from 1819 20. And then 21, in our case was a big spike because of the m&a will really took off in m&a is the best year in history. And then 2022 And it’s, you know, still is it still upward over that period of time. And maybe there’s one big spike in there from 2021 or in the pandemic’s case, perhaps 2020. Okay, so this sounds like a great business, a great listing, referred from the podcast, podcast listeners, so they’re getting an education before they decide to get the valuation. Tell me about the valuation process and the advisor and any if there’s any nuances there anything special or a good or bad that happened during that process?

Deanna Berardi  9:40

Yeah, so when the advisor got their hands on this, they were obviously super excited. And the here’s the odd thing is that it just serendipitously landed with one of our advisors who had just sold a very, very similar business. A similar Sighs similar in niche, and similar in age to an aggregator, and they’re like, oh my god, I can’t believe that. This is meant to be because you know, I just found you, you found us through the podcast. And here we are. You’re now back in my lap. I just ran the Quiet Light process with some someone in a very similar niche. And this seller was super excited. They exited with an aggregator. What do you think about us just taking this deal, because all these aggregators are obviously always asking for early deals, you know, pre deals, you know, whatever, which we don’t do for the most part. First, we can go down to so so they bought this aggregator, and they just said, Hey, you know, what do you think? And, and this was all of course, set up with the seller, it was kind of we’re going to try this first. And it’s just get some early feedback and kind of see what they say. Now, the interesting thing is that the advisor said, because of the things we just talked about, the niche defensibility, the profitability, the size, the stickiness of it, the fact that it was only in one channel, I’m going to put you in a 5x. So they said that the advisor brought this to the aggregator at at the sale price, which was 10 point 6 million plus inventory. That was the value for the client. And so Joe, you tell me, what do you think the aggregator said, when they saw this listing?

Joe Valley  11:19

You know, I know the answer. Well, I just What do you I think they said, we we did a poor job managing all of our purchases, and our debt providers won’t give us any money. How’s that? Or, or this is not in the Amazon space. All we know is Amazon. This is in a, you know, organic area where we don’t have to pay for advertising. It’s more stable. It’s more defensible. It’s a great business. And we don’t we don’t we don’t do that. No, I’m being so harsh on the aggregators right now. What did they say to you?

Deanna Berardi  11:55

Well, what they said and remember, this was like, This was around like,

Joe Valley  11:58

I just I just want everybody to know that Deanna fi if you’re listening, Deanna like going oh, no, don’t say those things drop because the Deanna works with so many of the aggregators in her buyer role, right? She does buyer support as well as Yeah, right. Yeah. Referral Program. Let me just say aggregators. You know, the ones that I know you personally, I love you, I think you’re awesome. I write about it in the book, how great you are, but with anything, right? So you are and this is me speaking in general to the aggregators, and this is the way I want you sellers and buyers to think about them as well. They are well educated, they are charming, they have a ton of dough Aza, they’re really good looking. They’re incredibly likable. And all of those things are really, really positive and combined together, makes them really dangerous. Because you just trust them, and you want to sell to them. And you’ll trust her opinion of what your business is worth, and the deal structure you have to have and how they’re going to run the business afterward and pay you around and all these other things. Just Just Just be cautious about it. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. All right. Is that Is that a good? You know, grain of salt, Deanna because I know that we love the aggregators, and they’re only they only represent a small percentage of the overall business that we sell to. But for the most part, folks, they are good people, even though I do make fun times. Sorry. Yeah, I had to correct my indiscretion there. Because Deanna was rolling her eyes at me.

Deanna Berardi  13:24

Yeah. Well, in this case, so this case, you don’t remember this, I get her has this deal, right? It’s 10 point 6 million. It’s a 5x, multiple, incident niche that they’re familiar with. And so everyone’s like, crossing fingers, like, okay, let’s just get this done. You know, maybe we can just get this done. So the aggregator came back with something really with basically a fear based kind of message. They said, you know, what, things have changed dramatically in the last four or five months since we closed that last deal. They had this fear base kind of dismal, almost doomsday type mentality. And they said, you know, we are just not going to be able to respond to this, we’re not going to be able to put this kind of money cash down. So essentially, what they said is, we can kind of meet that number, right, we can go ahead and meet that price of 10 point 6 million plus inventory, but we’re only going to give you half of that cash at closing. And the rest of that other half will be put into a seller’s note that be payable, like over 10 years. And that was just, you know, pretty like a non starter, right?

Joe Valley  14:31

We call a dip dip. That’s a dip dip, which means no, absolutely not. You know, yeah. Business owners, entrepreneurs, we’re not banks. We don’t, you know, finance things over 10 years. 12 To 36 months on the outside. I think as I’ve said before, I think the longest that’s ever happened was 60 months on a deal that I did and it’s because the buyer and seller just fell in love with each other as a couple of really successful female entrepass and ORs and when they met on the buyer seller conference call, it was like they were long lost sisters. And you know, the one seller was retiring and she wanted to be paid over a longer period of time. But mostly it’s 12 to 36 months. And part of the thing here with this, some of that sometimes you don’t, you just don’t get the full truth. And it could be because the aggregator just couldn’t muster up the funds were because the other, you know, businesses that they were managing, were not performing the way they needed to. So the debt providers weren’t giving them enough money to buy other things and reducing the risks in terms of the multiple of cash down, they changed their parameters that that could have been the case, I do want to comment before we go on to what happened afterwards, that the multiple on this one actually feels a little low, right, because it’s 1415 years old, seven patents growing in a really strong niche, so many positive things here. And at five times, it feels a tad low. But that’s me from the outside looking in. Sometimes folks, multiples are chosen based upon more than just the risk of growth, transferability and documentation of the company, sometimes it’s chosen based upon the goals of the seller, and how they feel in that moment in time. Sometimes it’s just like I don’t want to get I need to move on. Let’s just see if we can get this listed, you know, and get it done in the next 90 days. Sometimes that happens. And that might have been a little bit of a conversation going into this. Where it’s just priced to sell at this multiple, right. It’s it’s priced to sell which be interesting to see what we ended up getting in terms of did it sell below, asking at asking or above asking here. So let’s let’s jump on to this part. The the the lesson here, though, is from the broker, he thought he had a buyer in hand and what’s what’s the lesson here?

Deanna Berardi  16:56

The lesson here is well, here’s the lesson. And the lesson really comes at the second end what happened next, essentially, so So basically, the mental gymnastics, though, that I know the adviser went through, and to some part, the seller was what GE should know, now we have someone telling me that we’re facing a recession and that public traded companies in the same niche are only being valued at three to five multiples. This is a five, you know, e-commerce is not what it was, you know, maybe the sales are down in this niche, because of the fact that the pandemic is over people aren’t in their camping gear as much, etc, etc. So all that kind of stuff gave a pause. And then the advisor kind of came back, you know, fortified by the seller and just said, You know what, no, flat? No, that was one piece of feedback. Well, the thought I had the

Joe Valley  17:42

the advisor doesn’t tell the the buyer making the offer? No, I think what we do, is we not I think I know what we do is we do present the offer to the seller, and then the seller, then the seller said what do you think? And that’s when the advisors flat out said, heck no, right?

Deanna Berardi  17:58

No, yeah. What I mean by when you said no, as he said, This is just one data point of feedback, this is just a piece of feedback. No, we need to revisit this, if you’re going to decline this offer, we can revisit this and go back to where we were before, which is know the value of this listing and and say yes to the fact that we can present this to the market. And go ahead and see what everybody else has to say. So at this point, you know, the adviser and the seller just said, You know what, we just we didn’t get this going, it wasn’t a quick, easy thing. Let’s go for the full on launch. And so that’s exactly what they did. They went ahead and they launched. And at this point, as you know, Joe is going in front of our buyer list. So this is pretty exciting, because you know, we’ve got several 1000 buyers that are seeing this listing for the first time. And, and that was when

Joe Valley  18:48

they all have an NDA on file folks, just just throw it out there. All they’ll have to do if they don’t see the details of the listing, right, we’ve got, we don’t reveal the size of our list. It’s much larger than several 1000. But they see the teaser in their inbox, or on our website and the teaser reveals nothing about the business should be nothing in the description that would allow you to determine what the name of the business is. They inquire on the business. They get a link to if they don’t have an NDA on file. When they inquire our system is automated. It picks that up and gives them a link to sign a nondisclosure agreement. Once they’ve got the nondisclosure agreement signed off on they’ll get the full details in their inbox. So it’s not not 1000s of people that see the full details of the listing, they see that it’s a listing available. And then it’s usually you said hundreds it’s usually hundreds that would actually get to see the full details.

Deanna Berardi  19:46

Yeah, when they download when they decide to download it and they they liked the teaser and download they get the listing. So this one had a lot of interest, which is great. And and essentially through that through our list, you know someone downloaded the package a MER As a repeat buyer, it was a it was a private equity firm. That was I should say that the buyer was backed by private equity. And they had bought for quite a bit before. And they saw this listing, and they got really excited about it. So they jumped in, there’s a couple calls couple, you know, buyers that that percolated in that period. And in this particular case, this buyer closed on this deal at 7.6 5 million in cash. And then the others three and a half million they put aside, and that other 3.1 million was going to be coming out and paid in three different earn out payments. So the first or not payment would be 12 months after close. The second one would be 24 months after closer than 36 months and the thresholds that the that had to be hit, were very reasonable thresholds. And all these negotiations and all of this closed in just an in less than two months. So and the seller was very happy less

Joe Valley  21:00

than two months for an eight figure deal that is less than two months, that’s, that’s less than our average of 89 days or whatever it might be at this point, I haven’t looked at the deal dashboard this week, certainly less than average. So two very well educated, very well financed buyers, and I’m sure they’re good looking at charming two had two completely different valuation opinions, they both had access to the same economic information and the same information about the business. But they made two completely different offers. Again, the first offer may have been presented because of their own personal situation. The second offer because they, you know, looked at the details of it and their personal situation was a little bit better, a little bit more optimistic. I have a I have a brother that has a saying that says it’s rather crass. And this gives our podcast a rating that is explicit, right? And because I’m gonna swear right now, but opinions are like assholes everyone has one is what my brother says way too often. And in this case, you’ve got to keep that in mind. Because if somebody tells you your business is not worth what you think it is, that’s just their opinion, whether it’s an advisor, a Quiet Light, or a buyer that approached you out of the blue, it’s so important to get multiple opinions, we tell people, you go get a valuation from someone else’s, well, if we’re all in the same bar, ballpark range, what you want to do is work with one that you trust, and like the most, if five out of the six are in one ballpark range. And the other is, you know, offering, you know, saying they can sell for 50% more, you kind of take that with a serious grain of salt, because odds are they’re dead wrong. But that’s why we recommend to most people, when we list a business for sale, we don’t want to just go out to one or two or three buyers. We want it to go out to our entire list, because it brings people you know a bit with a bit of a frenzy if you will, right. I think the average number of ello eyes that we’ve had per listing over the last 12 months is 3.7 or something like that. And they sell on average above asking price. And in this case, Deanna just I know you broke down the details, which was about 70% cash and a 30% earn out over lo and behold, right 12 24 And 36 months, so less than 36 months, as I said early on a note was it was it at above or below asking price that the business sold for it was at asking price, it was at asking price. So there’s price price, right. And as far as the 30% earn out, folks, generally on a business of this size, when you get to eight figures, you’re gonna have to carry some sort of note, you know, and it’s generally we talked about 25 30%. The form of that note is unknown. You know, oftentimes it’s a seller note for the most part, so you know, you’re getting a fixed amount every month, and in this case turned out to be an earnout. But it sounds like it’s very reasonable benchmarks to hit, and it’s just amazing to me still that this business closed within two months of it being listed for sale for deal of this size. It’s this whoever this buyer was there, they’ve got to be incredibly well organized.

Deanna Berardi  24:23

Yeah, they were they were they were apparently just amazing. The due diligence was just they flew through due diligence. And they’re they had great books. And like I said they had all the presentation right up front of all the different patents they had. It was fairly easy to do the due diligence on the SEO because there really wasn’t all that much there. You know, they were very organic. You know, it’s cool as I touch base with a seller just a few months after this. And one of the things that he said he said two things he said number one is he was really happy with a Quiet Light platform. I don’t want to take by that is obvious to me, he was just really happy with the process. I think he was happy with the fact that he was able to trust. The advisors advice, as well as the Quiet Light the reliability of the Quiet Light list the wireless that we have. So you know, he appreciated that he had this, this quick little pitch to someone didn’t work out, okay, we’re going to run the regular, Quiet Light process. And here’s the result you’re going to have, I think he had appreciation for how that was navigated in this scenario, and I think that this is just my reflection, is what would have happened if this guy was happy. He had a great business, he’s 58 years old, wasn’t thinking about selling, what if he’d been approached by a buyer that or an aggregator that got him on the hook, and then had given him this blow of while, you know, we’re going to have this seller note arrangement and things are dismal. And you have to accept it. What if that had happened instead, because he had found Quiet Light, he had gotten to a broker that said, let’s just talk about the rest of the world and what they think, let’s give this thing a real chance and run our process on it. I think that was part of his happiness. And he ended up finding a retirement two years before he planned. And he said it was really happy. And what he also said is, you know what, I would definitely send more people your way. So they could have a similar success. So

Joe Valley  26:17

that’s great, you know, when they we as entrepreneurs put our blood, sweat, tears money, and like, lack of sleep many nights into our businesses. And sadly, the vast majority of people know what the value of their stock portfolio is, or their house or their car or their retirement fund, but they don’t know what the value of their businesses. And in this case, this person, listened to the podcast and got a valuation for his business and then made his decision, which I think is the right way to do it. I I don’t like it when someone gets approached cold, never gave thought to selling and go okay, that number sounds interesting. Because that number could be much higher, or the deal structure could be much better when they train for their exit. As we talk about right. You just don’t wake up and decide to sell your business train for your exit by listening to this and other podcasts like it. And by reading books, the Exitpreneurs’ Playbook, Walker’s Book Buy Then Build, it’s all educational material that will just enlighten you and give you more information to get the biggest return on your greatest asset, which very likely is your business. So I think this is a great deal debrief. Deanna. Thank you for sharing it, folks. We’re going to do this once a month, and bring back deals every every month. Deanna is the one that’s working with the advisors during the debrief on every deal that’s done every month, and we highlight one. In this case, it’s this particular business because of the situation with going out to one buyer first and then coming back and getting full price by going to our list. As you may or may not recall, Deanna is also in charge of our referral program. If you have a friend in the business that has not been in touch with quiet light, and they’re thinking about getting a valuation for their business, send them to Deanna just send an email introduction to [email protected]. And she will talk to them, she’ll make sure that they’re assigned to a great advisor that will give them an honest and fair valuation for the business at zero cost. And if we eventually sell that business, whether it’s right away within two months, or in 12 or 24 months, you as the referring partner will end up getting a 10% referral fee sent to you. Surprisingly, probably Deanna will text you. Hey, John, I owe $10,000. Where do I send this? It’s a great text to get. Oh, I

Deanna Berardi  28:35

love sending those texts. Those are the favorite ones

Joe Valley  28:37

to send out. All right, folks. This is the end of the podcast. Thanks for very much, Deanna. Thanks for giving us this great deal debrief. We’ll talk to you again next month.

Deanna Berardi  28:45

Of course. Bye Joe.

Outro  28:48

Today’s podcast was produced by Rise25 And the Quiet Light content team. If you have a suggestion for a future podcast, subject or guest, email us at [email protected] Be sure to follow us on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.

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