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Jump-Start Your Branding With Kate DiLeo
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [03:27] Kate DiLeo talks about what makes The Brand Trifecta unique and how it helps brands drive revenue
- [04:55] When should you start taking the first steps and work on leveling up your branding?
- [06:39] The common mistakes people make with their branding message
- [08:03] The most critical aspects of brand-building
- [09:47] Kate discusses the three-part methodology that makes up the Trifecta program
- [13:13] The top takeaways from Kate’s book Muting the Megaphone
- [14:38] How can e-commerce entrepreneurs simplify their messaging?
- [17:49] The Brand Trifecta’s pricing structure and its various options
- [22:09] Kate shares The Brand Trifecta’s ideal client profile
In this episode…
In today’s hyper-competitive business landscape, offering a great product or service does not guarantee success. To achieve long-term viability and maintain a competitive edge, businesses must prioritize the development of robust brand messaging. Can creating a distinctive brand identity that speaks to your target audience make all the difference?
Seasoned brand strategist Kate DiLeo says it’s crucial to have a powerful brand message that resonates with your target audiences and sets you apart from the competition. Your brand message should communicate your unique value proposition, establish trust with your prospects, and ultimately convince them to choose you over other options in the market. Creating a winning brand message is easier said than done because it requires a deep understanding of your target audiences, your unique strengths, and the competitive landscape in your market. Kate explains how experts can quickly and effectively assist in developing a brand messaging strategy that speaks directly to your target audience and positions you as the go-to business in your particular industry.
In this episode of the Quiet Light Podcast, Pat Yates sits down with Kate DiLeo, Founder and CEO of The Brand Trifecta, to discuss how entrepreneurs can thrive and set themselves apart through strategic brand messaging. Kate talks about how to approach brand messaging, how leveling up your messaging creates an impact, the Trifecta methodology, and how e-commerce entrepreneurs can simplify their messaging.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Kate DiLeo on LinkedIn
- Kate DiLeo
- The Brand Trifecta
- Muting the Megaphone: Stop Telling Stories and Start Having Conversations by Kate DiLeo
- Quiet Light
- Quiet Light Podcast on YouTube
- Joe Valley on LinkedIn
- Pat Yates on LinkedIn
- Mark Daoust on LinkedIn
- Quiet Light Podcast email: [email protected]
- The EXITpreneur’s Playbook: How to Sell Your Online Business for Top Dollar by Reverse Engineering Your Pathway to Success by Joe Valley
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Quiet Light, a brokerage firm that wants to help you successfully sell your online business.
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If you’re new to the prospect of buying and selling, Quiet Light is here to support you. Their plethora of top-notch resources will provide everything you need to know about when and how to buy or sell an online business. Quiet Light offers high-quality videos, articles, podcasts, and guides to help you make the best decision for your online business.
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What are you waiting for? Quiet Light offers the best experience, strategies, and advice to make your exit successful. To learn more, go to quietlight.com, email [email protected], or call 800.746.5034 today.
Hey folks, it’s the Quiet Light Podcast where we share relentlessly honest insights, actionable tips and entrepreneurial stories that will help founders identify and reach their goals
Pat Yates 0:32
Hello, and welcome to Quiet Light Podcast. I’m Pat Yates. Today’s episode is gonna be kind of fun. One of the things people don’t quite understand when they launch a business is how do I tie in my branding? How do I tie my marketing? How do I look like I’m consistent versus inconsistent a lot of different ways. I think I’ve talked with Kate today on the podcast Kate DiLeo our guests from Minneapolis, Minnesota has a company called Brand Trifecta. And Brand Trifecta is going to help you and your brand and get you started in the right positions. Make sure that all your assets and everything that you do in your business and your messages are all consistent. It’s interesting how as I started to talk to Kate, it dawned on me that those brand messages need to be really consistent along a lot of lines, because anymore, people want to understand the kind of companies they’re doing business with, where they’re from, what are their philosophies, things like that are so important. I know Kate is going to talk about some practical examples how it’s helped people sales before in the past, so I’m super excited. She’s a mom. She’s done a lot with business. She’s really excitable. I’m so excited to have Kate in the podcast. So let’s get right to it. Kate, welcome to the Quiet Light Podcast. It’s awesome to have you here today.
Kate DiLeo 1:38
Thank you, Pat. It’s great to be here.
Pat Yates 1:40
Yeah. So I know you’re from Minneapolis, Minnesota where our founder is from, he’s not a very nice guy. So don’t run into him markdowns. run the other way. Don’t ever run into him and actually talk to him. I’m kidding. He’s one of the best guys in the world. If you ever mark you would love that. So but I’m anxious to talk to you I know that you have a lot of things going on. You’re kind of a brand ambassador you have Brand Trifecta. Obviously you help people understand in business, whether it’s consulting or a lot of different ways. But first off, we’d love to hear about you. We already said you’re from Minneapolis. But tell us about you family. Anything you’d want to tell us.
Kate DiLeo 2:13
Well, yeah, so when I’m not over here doing all the brand things geeking out with companies on branding, I am a mom of four young children, we’ve got to think blended families. So we’ve got aged five, seven, nine and nine. So Pat, basically I love that I think my life is in control between the hours of eight and four and then as soon as those children get off the bus. Yeah, I’ve nothing under control. Right you’re just trying to keep them alive at that point. Like get them to bed. So mom of four busy with that, avid traveler, scuba diver, hiker, skier love all that stuff. And really brand is my passion. I love being part of the entrepreneurial community in the marketing community getting to talk with people about how do we all level up our messaging and really are some burn initiatives that we’re really achieving next-level growth.
Pat Yates 3:01
That makes a lot of sense. Actually, it’s interesting, because I’m a family man as well, I have three boys. So I remember. They’re much older than them now. But I remember that time and it’s total chaos. So yeah, never, ever seem to feel very comfortable that that’s the case. So anyway, but I know that you have the business Brand Trifecta. And I know that you do a lot of building brands, and you had a corporate name around us. So give us an overview of what you do in Brand Trifecta, or basically in your work life.
Kate DiLeo 3:27
Sure. So previously, I’ve been a consultant for about 10 years Pat. And this year, we just launched The Brand Trifecta, which is really, it’s a tech company. So what it is, is the brand-building platform that’s for founders and marketers and build leaders who specifically want to go through the process that I teach, called The Brand Trifecta, to build their brand message in a matter of weeks. And it’s an interactive platform. It’s highly collaborative. And it’s really enabling people to come out the other end with a method is going to drive revenue. And that’s after the work that I’ve done for the last decade as a consultant as a teacher and speaker is teaching people this formulaic approach to their brand message that really rooted in buyer psychology that gets to the heart of like, what does somebody need to know, in that first 15 to 30 seconds to want to have a conversation and pick the next step with our brands? What do they need to know? And how do we write that or say that in a way that is authentic to who we are in the organization, but then also deeply resonates at the heart level with our prospects and customers?
Pat Yates 3:27
So let’s break that down. Let’s say there’s someone that’s trying to get into business, we have a lot of listeners that are either looking to buy business from Quiet Light, or are building a business or entrepreneurs thinking about their next venture. So let’s just say that someone either acquires or starts a business that doesn’t have great branding, let’s just say that you identify them as a client, what are the main things you need to look at to understand if your business in a position that it’s branded well, and if not, how do they take those first steps with you?
Kate DiLeo 4:55
Well, sure. So there’s a couple of layers to that answer. So I think first and foremost, let me kind of reverse engineer this, when do you know that you need to look at your brands, and maybe do a slight pivot, I think the symptoms that I hear the most often are, gosh, Kate, I’m struggling to get the right kind of prospects to the table. Or, well, our sales cycle time is really long, or our close rate, we’re getting people to the table, we’re not closing them. Some things off at that point, something slightly off, meaning it’s not a sales issue is often what you’re saying and to whom. So the work that then comes from analyzing that Pat is looking at your brand, from the perspective of really brand is the promise of who we are and what we do and the value that we deliver. And if we understand that, it’s way more than the color purple, and I’m not even a graphic designer, right? When we think about that, what we have to decide is who are we going after and why. And then what is the message we’re delivering to them that’s going to compel them to take the next step and buy, but often, when you’re going into business, or looking to start a new venture, we tend to get into our mindset of, I need to look at what the competition is doing. Or I need to serve everybody with what I’m doing in order to generate revenue. And those are the two biggest mistakes that I see. Despite of who we are, who we’re actually going after a niche in and get really good at delivering a good message to a singular group of people. If we do that revenue comes.
Pat Yates 6:24
Wow. So when people are looking at their branding, what are the common mistakes that people make? Because I think a lot of people might assume, my branding is great, I have a little logo or whatever it’s going to be. But I think it’s an overall philosophy. I mean, what are the things that people typically will make mistakes on in their branding?
Kate DiLeo 6:39
So one of the big ones is bleeding with complex stories. It’s funny, Pat, let’s assume you and I meet for the first time, we meet in a room and shake hands and you say, okay, so nice to meet you. What’s typically the first thing you’re gonna ask me?
Pat Yates 6:56
I don’t know. That’s a great question. I probably think of something more personal, I wouldn’t necessarily think business.
Kate DiLeo 7:01
If it’s on the business side, you might go well, what do you do? Tell me about yourself? What do you do? Right.
Pat Yates 7:06
That is kind of personal, though too.
Kate DiLeo 7:08
It is, right, now you live with personal but if it’s a business conversation, a lot of people want to know, what do you do? What do you do? What do you do? And if I went into some complex, convoluted story, like, Pat, when the timer was 12? Like, have you ever done it before you see the eyes glaze over like, and I lost him. Here’s the biggest mistake that we make. We believe with convoluted stories that are all about us. And we miss the point that what the other person is actually going in and looking for in that conversation, that brand conversation is really getting to the nuts and bolts and five minutes worth to say, here’s how I get value. This is what I do.
Pat Yates 7:42
Right. I mean, that’s amazing. So tell us a little bit when you go into building a brand. Let’s say that we come into you, and someone does it, what all assets and things are involved in that I think people may not even understand the scope of let’s just assume it’s a brand new startup, they bought it from Quiet Light. They never did any branding or anything around it. What are the things they need to consider? Because I probably haven’t thought of all?
Kate DiLeo 8:03
Yeah, that’s a great question. Because brand is this big, nebulous thing that we don’t always think about your life, American anything. Well, actually, no. Brand is a revenue generation thing. And I’m a founder, founder, and I predominantly work with founders, by the way, we’re coming to the table going, if I don’t know Kate, what I’m saying to whom I’m not gonna be able to sell. So that’s what brand helps you do helps you sell. Now in the context of what that means from a pure just tactical perspective here. In marketing speak, there’s things for your brand, such as your vision statement, and your mission statement and your value, those are internal brand statements, Pat that typically drive where the organization was going. But really the crux of your brand is the sales method, just the one, two, three punch of what you say in that first 30 seconds. And that includes things like a tagline that says what you do a value proposition statement, which is really like that statement that goes, here’s the problem you’re facing, and here’s how to solve it. And then instead of differentiate or statements, the one, two, three ways are different and better than the rest. It’s really these three thing in that order that you cannot miss with your brand. You got to have them kneel because that is the step that compel somebody to go, that’s interesting. I want to have a conversation take the next step.
Pat Yates 8:03
So following these steps, definitely get you an overall branding and everything from there. Just try to fit it in, whether it’s coloring, whether it’s message, whether it’s steam, things like that, you just lay out the entire process for them. So I know that when you come in and you’re working with you. Again, we’re talking with Kate DiLeo with and your branding at Brand Trifecta. I was looking at the site and it’s really amazing because you talked a lot of terms that I’m not really 100% perfect understanding of but tell us about the trifecta program.
Kate DiLeo 9:47
Yeah, absolutely. So the trifecta program is actual product. This platform follows my one, two, three approach to branding. Like I just said, I spent 10 years by the way, let me rewind. My whole career I fell into branding. I did not have a plan of doing this with my life. I fell into this out of necessity when the market crash because I took a cold sales job, calling it professional to sell them training classes. Okay, done the sales job, you could say, right? And what I realized is that I was never going to break through the ice and get through that door if I didn’t think about really what if I were on the other end of the phone call? What would I want to know, to remotely want to have a conversation? So I didn’t know it until somebody said, well, that’s your brand pitch, I had no idea that was brand, I just put them in logic. Now fast forward, that has become the method that I teach of what is the one, two, three punch of your methods that you need to build and actually write systematically, the platform teaches you how to go through that process of defining your ideal target audiences, understanding what how many layers of messaging you may need if you serve different groups of people, and then actually putting pen to paper to write this. And you don’t have to be a writer, or a marketer to do that. Most people are just founders go online ever sign up to be a marketer. But gosh, I better know what I’m saying. And to whom? And can I make this easy? And can I write this in a way that sounds like something I’d actually say? That’s what the platform does.
Pat Yates 11:13
That’s amazing. So, those kinds of things are really incredible. And your background is just astounding, not only you are a mom, and you’ve run a business, and you’re doing consulting, but you’ve written a book, and I’d love to hear about that, because like I’ve talked to a few authors in the last few weeks, and I feel like I’m repeating this, and I can barely read a book much less, write one. So I know that my competency is not there to do and I’m marvel at people that have the ability. So tell us what made you decide to do that? And why the message?
Kate DiLeo 11:38
I have no idea. No, I’m kidding. You know what’s so funny is I really didn’t want to write the book. I think most of us were writers, you any author, there was never the burgeoning desire, like, I must be an author. I don’t find for that hired. But you know what happened was I kept getting asked any African app take, can you write the formula down? Kate, can you write this down, so I could read it on my own terms. And when I was realizing that it was in my best interest to put pen to paper and actually write the entire Brand Trifecta model into a single book. And so my book is called Muting The Megaphone: Stop Telling Stories and Start Having Brand Conversations. And it’s really debunking that myth for a lot of us in today’s climate where I’ve got to tell my story, and I’m going to pause. What you actually need to do with cut through the noise and the first 30 seconds and open the door. So somebody wants to hear your story. You’re leading with every myth about you, and they don’t care yet. How do you get them to a point where they do care, and they’ve opted into a brand conversation with you. That’s what the book is about. That, by the way, Pat, I wrote it in 10 days. You know what I did, is I hid in my bedroom. And I told my husband like, there’s a lot of like, Cabernet and takeout pizza involved, and I’ll see you in a week and a half. Okay, so he took care of the kids that I did that, it works, we got a ton.
Pat Yates 12:58
So what are the top takeaways? If people are out there, the book is called Muting The Megaphone, which I assume you can find about anywhere. If not, you can buy it at katedileo.com the shameless plug but tell us the main message the overview of what people can expect to get out of the from Muting The Megaphone?
Kate DiLeo 13:13
Yeah, Muting The Megaphone follows the philosophy of how you shift from telling complex brand stories or messaging the theory complex. And how do you simplify and reverse engineer creating that one, two, three punch of a brand new effective message that brings somebody to the actual point of conversion, the whole method here, Pat is based on buyer psychology. And I’ve worked with neuroscientists and psychologists, when you tell somebody what you do tagline how you solve their problem, value proposition statement, and then how you’re different differentiator statements. And you write that and you deliver that verbally or on your website, or whatever it is. That is the stuff that creates a conversion moment where somebody is opting in and saying, now tell me how you deliver on that what’s included with the pricing with the features, what’s the benefit, the depth of stuff, it’s really about allowing your buyers to self-select in and get there as quickly as possible.
Pat Yates 14:11
Right. So a lot of the people that are out there, e-commerce operators, some people think about branding and really wide scope. Somebody think about packaging, somebody think about marketing and colors, things like that. If you’re an e-commerce entrepreneur, some people out there may think, I just put my product out there and I launched my site. This is not really something for me. Now, I think that sometimes the nuances of marketing needs something behind it. So what would you tell those people if you’re trying to break down the barrier of getting in touch with you? Why do they need to work with you?
Kate DiLeo 14:39
Well, you know what, I’ll tell you this. I’ve worked with a ton of e-comm companies, the formula still remains but I just want to give you a silly example. This last summer I worked with a flower company that sells wedding flowers online. They do over 10 million a year just selling wedding flowers. Okay. Been around for over 10 years female and business. Men came to me and said, you know what, we’re not really displaying a core brand message on our homepage of our website. We’re kind of all over the place with our messaging, we really need to drive revenue and conversions. So we wrote the message we tested on mobile first, before going to the whole desktop type. Did you know that within one week of deploying their Brand Trifecta on their homepage, they had a 50% increase in conversions?
Pat Yates 15:19
Wow. So just having that there, and you reinforce that all throughout the site? I mean, what is the philosophy here?
Kate DiLeo 15:26
We do reinforce that, but what we’re trying to also make sure is, as we know with e-comm, there’s a delicate line here that you also don’t want so much content that someone’s not driving to shop. So I always make sure that I’m thinking about the best interests of the analytics and the science behind how you build e-comm fight to we don’t want to get in the way of that, right, there’s got to be this balance of how much copies but we wrote less copy than maybe I might write for like a IT services company. Great, we still have those three points of a Brand Trifecta, but as much shorter, much cleaner. It’s funny, though, I got a call a month later, and they had the highest filter they’ve ever had in the history of the company, since launching that Brand Trifecta. And I’ll tell you what…
Pat Yates 16:08
So you’re like the magic switch that turns on sales, their guarantee, and everybody a huge lift. Did you all hear that?
Kate DiLeo 16:13
Oh, gosh, I’m guaranteeing everyone. No, well, if you deploy, you will see revenue. But if you just sit within the darn document, no you will won’t. Here’s the thing, though, couple of the things with e-comm to keep in mind when you have the right message on your site, it’s very interesting. I’ve seen two trends in the last three years and three, four years especially. So when you’ve got your brand out there, and it’s doing what it’s supposed to, we’ve actually seen a decrease in time on site. You might go wait, what? Hold on, we saw a decrease in the time on site for the user, but an increase in shopping. What that is signaling is that the message was that clear that they moved to the shop component factor, they understood the value that quickly and we’re making a buying decision, which is actually a great thing. The second thing was a decrease in shopping cart abandonment rate. So we were seeing these two metrics signal that when a method is doing his job, even for e-comm company, when you’re Brand Trifecta male, you actually get to start to ask the question of what metrics are we tracking and why? And what are really the signal if somebody’s going through the shopping process in the best possible way.
Pat Yates 16:14
That’s really interesting. I think it’s great, there’s so many little things that make someone make a buying decision. And being able to trust that company be able to see consistent message is really, really important. So I noticed is I was going through Brand Trifecta. And again, we’re talking with Kate DiLeo with Brand Trifecta, you have a lot of different pricing tiers, which says you will come in a lot of different nuances of customers, maybe small, maybe big corporation, tell us the philosophy around coming in and being able to work with you is it something that costs a certain amount, and it’s gonna be tough for people or no.
Kate DiLeo 17:49
So as a consultant, when you hire me to be one-on-one with you, and go through an eight-week project, where I’m in the room with you building your brand, that’s the most expensive project of upwards of $15,000, on average. Now, when you go through the actual Brand Trifecta program on the website, that’s only a few $1,000, way better priced. And when you think Apples to Apples between hiring a consultant, hiring a marketing agency, etc, there’s a couple of big benefits here, one, feed, to price point three, the interactive ability to get through the with the guidance to actually learn how to write, meaning you as the founder or leader are going to know what you’re saying and why. It wasn’t built in a box somewhere by somebody else who didn’t really understand your business. I do offer multiple tiers that attract companies that are from a solo entrepreneur, all the way up to pretty large midsize companies. And what the difference is, is between how many layers of messaging do you need to write? Do I just need one tagline for my company and one value proposition that speaks to everybody? Or do I have six different complex buyers that might need more, and I therefor need to write a couple layers of messaging to speak to everybody across a very complex website, program console for all of that.
Pat Yates 19:02
That’s really good. So I know that sometimes when someone will come in and work with you consulting, marketing, branding, things like that’s a really, really broad topic. I feel like we covered a lot of them. But are there other things that you’d like to touch on that entrepreneurs should take advantage of inside your consulting or that company?
Kate DiLeo 19:17
Yeah, I think the big thing here and I appreciate the question is, as you’re considering branding for your organization, or you’re acquiring a company, or you’re at that tipping point, where you’re looking at what’s next in the evolution of my organization, other things that come along with a brand conversation are pricing and productization What are you selling? And for how much as well, to go back to thinking about well, how many target audiences do I have? What’s the ultimate heart pain I’m solving for them? If we address that you begin to ask the question, do I need to sell 35 things or is actually kind of the 35 the ones where my making the most margin, easily the best sale and are going to sell the most pain for my customers. When we start jumping around that line of thinking, you begin to shore up your bottom line as well as your top line. And that is an important topic you should be thinking about when you’re evaluating your brand. So that ultimately you can deliver on the promise that you just wrote in the first place.
Pat Yates 20:15
Right? So you think mirroring that in making sure because in this day and time, you really have to be sensitive to customers, I mean, they have to understand that you’re there for their needs, a lot of times is amped up to some people get and as some of the world has become, it’s always good to have that message about what you really mean in your company. So what other when you’re doing these kinds of deals, do you all do start to finish help with assets and logos, things like that, let’s say that that’s part of that is that part of the service as well?
Kate DiLeo 20:43
Don’t actually, you’re gonna see wait, what? Well, here’s the deal, I practice what I preach, I see very much in my lane that my job is not be a one stop-shop for everything. I am a brand writer and strategist that helps you level up your practice ation, and messaging in your marketing. Now, I then have amazing partners that I can recommend, or you may have your own partners that can design, build the website, update copy for you build the asset. And the beauty of that for me Pat is you know what I did is I got myself out of the weeds of the things I’m not great at my stay in my lane. And I can refer to other awesome small businesses that can serve these my clients and vice versa. That creates referral channel partnerships. I never take referral things. But what it does, we create with awesome situation where we just are always keeping each other in mind. Another beautiful way to do business.
Pat Yates 21:33
I think the amazing thing about you, and if you take a little bit of bragging on you, I can tell that you invest yourself in your clients. It’s really amazing. Because I spend a lot of time, I had my Shark Tank e-comm company that travel and I do a lot of educational stuff. I’m going to do that again here. Very soon with Daymond John, actually on a panel for kids in Greenville, South Carolina, trying to do it. I love when people try to add value to others in a lot of philanthropic ways. I think a lot information you have on your site, you’re giving away a little bit of the secret sauce, because you’re telling so many people so many things. So I mean, what are the perfect clients for you? I mean, if someone’s out there listening, is it any kind of business? Or are there niches that are better?
Kate DiLeo 22:09
You know what, if it’s a consulting project, gosh, dang it, I only work with founder-led companies, I will never take a project unless that founder is in the room. I don’t care how big of a company you are. I’ve worked with 100 million-dollar companies and that founders in the room. And the reason I do that is because that founder holds the keys of the brand, pure and simple. And there’s stuff that gets unlocked that when the founder and the C-suite team is in the room, you begin to create this synergy and excitement of where we’re going with the organization. And my job is to kind of herd the cats and do that. So that’s my number one passion. The second passion is anything that involves technology, because I’m a self-taught developer, I worked with it for years. I love technology, and I have the ability to help tech experts who are far smarter than I am. Maybe boil down all of the tech speak into a subtle language that was going to make sense for their customers. And how do we translate that a little bit? And that’s fun.
Pat Yates 23:05
That’s really amazing. Kate, it’s been amazing having you in the Quiet Light Podcast. Is there anything else you want to tell people be sure to tell them how to get in touch with you? Things like that. So people can be able to contact you.
Kate DiLeo 23:16
I appreciate that. Yeah, if you’re curious about this whole idea of brand, if you’re looking to kind of look at your own messaging, take a look at my core website, which is katedileo.com you can check us a platform at brandtrifecta.com. Pat’s gonna have those in the show notes. But on my website for katedileo.com, maybe you could definitely looking at the book. Maybe that’s a how to it’s 120 pages and it just walks you through the practical steps of this. And my hope is that it gets you excited about small but very impactful things you can do to level up your brand. So you’re ultimately driving revenue.
Pat Yates 23:47
That’s amazing, Kate, it’s been awesome having you in the Quiet Light Podcast so you got so much energy we should do this all the time.
Kate DiLeo 23:53
Whatever you want, sir. Also, it’s called call.
Pat Yates 23:55
I love it, like scream and talk too fast and everything like 250 words a minute speaking. It’s been awesome coming in and joining me. If you guys, if anyone has interested in figuring out how to brand yourself, the biggest step is to reach out talk to Kate, let her analyze the business. Take a look. All she could do is help. But again, thanks for being the Quiet Light Podcast, today was awesome talking with you.
Kate DiLeo 24:15
Today’s podcast was produced by Rise25 and the Quiet Light content team. If you have a suggestion for a future podcast, subject or guest, email us at [email protected]. Be sure to follow us on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram, and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.